Hello ladies (current and former) of Lemmy (current) - I’m curious how your experience of the male gaze has changed as you moved in and out of young-woman-hood.
How has your opinion of being seen changed through this process?
Pre transition I wasn’t subjected to it so, I only ever knew it as it was applied to other people. It was gross and exploitative but not in a way that I personally experienced. There was a bit of detachment from that, I didn’t properly recognize it for what it was because my own dysphoria and discomfort made me somewhat oblivious to it.
When I first transitioned the male gaze felt like some metric I had to compare myself to if I wanted to be accepted. I started to subtly invalidate myself by all the ways my body differed from what was expected of me as a woman. It became a source of constant self dismissal and a feeling that I didn’t live up to expectations of womanhood, and therefore wouldn’t be accepted as a woman.
After several years of hormones and then bottom surgery I started to gain confidence in myself and I started to notice a lot more the way men look at me. The experience has honestly sucked as much as it is validating. I know I look good, that I’m conventionally attractive. I’m uncomfortable in a lot of settings due to that. I’m good at hiding my discomfort and maintaining my confidence even when I’m being leered at. But nontheless it makes me feel gross a lot of the time. I’m a gay woman, so it also feels like a part of me is being consumed without my consent just by me passively existing somewhere. Like going to the grocery store and noticing the guy staring at you standing next to his wife. He should know the way him staring makes me feel but if he does know he doesnt care. The way people treat me is totally different too. People being genuinely very nice and happy to speak with me. It’s made me understand in a personal way not just how passing is a privilege but being seen as desirable by men is too. I’m still young so my experiences are still growing. I want to be a mom someday and I think a lot about how my children will be subjected to this too.
Thank you for sharing your experience! It’s very interesting how it changed as you’ve felt it from various angles.
I’m oblivious and always have been. I assume every smile is a friendly smile and I’m ok chatting with almost anyone. I only really notice if someone says something creepy or touches me too much. My husband accuses me of flirting with everyone.
I’m a trans woman, have been transitioning for 10 years. It’s really hit or miss whether or not people can clock me. I’ve had friends know me for two years without knowing I was trans.
Men ogle and catcall me frequently, it’s annoying as fuck since I’m not even straight. It’s flattering when queer women hit on me though. I’ve been both catcalled and misgendered within the same block. I also tend to have a strong social presence which is both a blessing and a curse.
Also, men cannot take no as an answer. I often pretend I have a boyfriend since creeps are more respectful of imaginary men than real women.
That’s a really interesting perspective, thank you. Do you remember noticing when you started being seen as a woman by strangers?
Probably around 2 years in or so. It’s not a light switch, it’s more like a dimmer.
I’m 56.
Mostly I think younger guys trust me and see me more as a safe authority than fuckable (mostly) so I can relax around them, not worried. But there are still catcalls and shit, I fully expect to be 90 and have someone yell “lookin’ spry, grandma!”. Don’t think that is actually about how you look, those guys are relentless.
My trajectory may be different from most, I was a very skinny tall girl in a world where that was most assuredly not seen as sexy, so I didn’t feel pretty as a young woman, nor did most guys see me as sexy. There were some creepy old guys into it but that sure didn’t make me feel sexy at all. Also my ex liked me ‘despite’ my lack of curves. Fast forward 25 years, we split and in the meantime, the world had changed, the smaller boobs and lean body held up and more guys my age were into my looks, it took some time to adjust but I actually feel more attractive and sexy in my mid 50s than I did in my 20s or 30s. Don’t look better in an absolute sense (if I could have been young now, I mean, with the wider beauty standards) but in relation to my peers, definitely better now.
I have always been “non-traditional” looking. When I was young and skinny I don’t think I was ugly but certainly not conventionally beautiful. Now that I’m older I am certifiably “meh”.
The expectation to look pretty (for men) is still there even if I don’t meet the criteria for their attention. I still feel the societal pressure, I still feel bad about my appearance when I’m not serving male gaze ideals. It doesn’t just go away even when you’re disqualified from personhood for being ugly.
I’m hoping becoming an old biddy will release me from requirements and I can feel free.
I’ve lost weight (finally in the healthy range for my height) and I’ve noticed more guys look at me when I walk by than when I was overweight. I don’t mind and it doesn’t really affect me. I decided a long time ago that what people think about me is their own business and idgaf.
I’ve also got catcalled more while walking, which is not fun and does bother me.
Have you ever gotten the classic whistle? I feel like that’s just in movies.
I’ve gotten the whistle. Only when I was a teenager though. Seems the type of man who whistles doesn’t like adult women
Have you gotten the guy in a pickup pulling up to ask if you’re single like one of the other responders?
I’m a 50-year-old lady, and just last week some dood pulled over his truck to ask me if I was single. They don’t go away, you’re just a LOT less interested.
I’m mid-30s be went through a weight fluctuation. I used to be very thin and honestly quite hot, though I didn’t realize it. I never really felt like I got much male attention. I also hated being perceived and pretty much avoided men, so that’s probably why. Then I gained weight (around 40 pounds) and did a lot of mental and emotional work and learned to live my body. I felt better and more beautiful in my bigger body than I ever did when I was young. I also had way more male attention. Maybe because my own confidence had grown. In the past 2 years, I lost the weight and at first got my “old” body go but then started working out a lot and have a new, different, strong body. Which, on top of the work I did when I was bigger, I love my body. I definitely notice eyes following me a lot, but have less approaches. Hopefully I’m intimidating.
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He does sound like a tool.
I’m not sure what I meant either, I’ll just remove it. I’m sure I had a brilliant thought behind it at the time!
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Are you asking as a male or someone who’s transitioning out of young womanhood?
I’m a boring guy like from an insurance commercial, just curious what it’s like on the other side and especially in the way that experience changes! The categories in the title were the first I thought of for people who may have passed through or into a peak of sexual desirability. It’s probably fraught question, and I’m sure I’m phrasing it indelicately.
Are you wearing khakis?
Kakhi shorts and a polo, yes! May I interest you in saving on your insurance by bundling home and auto?
I remember the day I finally realized I was being left alone. It has been glorious. Best part of getting older. It’s so nice to simply exist in my own space.
I believe you are talking about “The Wall”, there are people who say women hit “The Wall” at 30yo I am not sure, maybe some women around 35yo.
If you are a woman I suggest you to get married at 29yo or less or probably you will be forever-alone or at least you can have what you want and not the least worse.
Is—is this satire?
It depends…
On?
Who’s asking…
Huh. I don’t live in that world I guess. A wall? For women but not men? Ha ha ha! Here, women are mostly holding up much better as far as I can tell.
Fertility - wise, what you say makes more sense, if you want a family better to start before 30 if you can, it’s easier on your body, and probably the origin of that wall nonsense. Having my last one at nearly 40 was not hard, but a first one that old is riskier.
I believe there is a wall for men also but it’s not related to the age and more about personality stuff, in the case of women and in the society historically women physical aspect have been more important not the same for men. Idk the numbers but just compare how much men vs women are on onlyfans and I can bet the few men are more attractive by their personality than by the physical aspect.
Men definetly care about women personality but I believe it’s of second importance, but for women if men didn’t have a good personality they aren’t attractive at all.
I mean women’s personality it’s very important also but usually men care less about it than physical attraction.
Historically women attractive it’s based on the beauty and men attractive it’s based in personality and other characteristics like social status, money and power(leadership).
My point could be, there are men who born in the wall, women also but it’s not the same how both roles generate attractiveness.
How old are you? 18?
I don’t like to disclose personal identificable information on the internet, but I am +25yo.
I’m not saying it’s scientifically proven… but I’ve personally noticed that women lose most of their physical attractiveness at age 30, which means attention from perhaps 90% of men who generally focus only on their physique.
I mean, I agree with you observation, but your suggestion seems asinine. I don’t think 90% of men go for looks only. A majority, probably, but I’d guess more like 60-70%. Also, men in their 30s generally also start to understand that looks aren’t everything. So just because a woman is single at 30 does not mean she has to settle for “the least worse”
I think it depends on the culture of the place, it can vary, although I do believe that the majority of men, regardless of age, would prefer a 25-year-old woman to a 45-year-old. Very different from if you ask a woman, generally women like older men, if you ask a 25-year-old woman, she would most likely prefer someone 30 or older, and a 25-year-old man would most likely prefer a 20-year-old woman. I am referring to the generality, not the totality, there are definitely exceptions.
I believe OP it’s asking about “The Wall”, In my culture and according to my experience, I have noticed that generally it is more difficult for 35-year-old women who are alone to find a partner than for 35-year-old men who are alone. I think it is due to the traditional role of men and women. Honestly, I am not very sure what will happen with the new generations, but I think that artificial intelligence brides will be a success.
“Forever Alone” is a carrot, not a stick, my man.
From the economic POV I believe it is a good point, but, from the human biological POV I believe people generally need a partner to found real life meaning.
I think there are exceptions to the rule obviously.
That’s not even close to true. Don’t believe what Hollywood and Disney are trying to sell. Having a partner doesn’t grant meaning or satisfaction with life, nor does not having one bar you from either.
The kind of people who are happy with someone tend to also be the kind of people who are happy single.
Yeah I’m speaking about the generality… not about a totality… I’m not talking exactly about happiness I’m talking about life meaning, all living beings are naturally designed to reproduce themselves, I’m not saying that’s the only sense of life but definitely continuing the existence of the race it’s a big one.
Reproducing doesn’t grant meaning. Sheesh.
