Agree with you in general, but I think a lot if people here are not really informed what differences there are materialistic ideologies.
Yes, Stalin bad.
But Guevara is not Stalin.
Marx is not che
Engels is not Marx
China is not communist.
Marxism is not materialism
Socialism is not communism
Also the amount of people bringing the “the 3 times people tried socialism were bad, so the whole ideology must be bad” argument are way to high IMHO.
How many times was capitalism tried? How many times it worked out? Is the USA a “functioning” state with all the oppression, racism, greed, invading other countries out of monetarian interest and environment destruction?
While I agree with you, that oppression is bad, no matter what the oppressor calls himself, we should talk about policies without resorting to dogmas and generalising people in favor of fear the hegemonic class is propagating to stay in power.
Based.
They already have lemmygrad.
Honestly, I don’t think we need them here.
the have genzdong in there lol
tankies more like no thankies
This comment section is really something uh
Tankies on their way to explain why teaming up with the Nazis to conquer Poland is actually based and totally in line with Marxist philosophy.
Can you give an actual example?
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Thank fuck. I thought Lemmy was some ultra militant leftist hellhole before the shift.
I don’t like extreme radical left any more than extreme radical right.
Fuck Che Guevara. Read a book.
tankies arent radical left. they are authoritarians ffs
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already have. maybe u should get urself another book to read for once.
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the US state department dogma must be a much better read😌
lmao
How will you perform a non-authoritarian revolution? How will you quash racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.? By being polite?
the main idea is dual power structures. spreading awareness, and people will do whats necessary, mobilize, organize, all that fun stuff. if u can teach people about the struggles of marginalized groups, they will be able to recognize it in their own lives and stand up against it.
Or are you going to vote us towards communism🤩
and there wont be a need for political parties to enforce “compliance”, people are naturally empathetic. well not all people, but the vast majority.
And I have plenty more books, but go on🤗
try “Are you an anarchist? the answer might surprise you” by David Graeber, if ur ever looking for something else.
or “Anarchy works” by Peter Gelderloos for a more comprehensive description of these ideas.
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Do you know its possible to read books and disagree with them?
The ML obsession with treating books as religious tomes is getting tiring.
what if the book is Che Guevaras “Guerrilla Warfare”
Is being a good tactician and being a genocidal, totalitarian extremist an oil and water situation?
He can be both.
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How about Saw Gerrera?
Saw Gerrera is an extremist and must be brought to justice for the good of the Empire.
This, but unironically. That man lost it and became a monster.
c/EnlightedCentrism
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Che Guevara did a lot of good for people, like the people of Cuba. Considering he fought, and helped Cuba free itself from being a colony to the United States and against Batista. I didn’t know people fighting for the right to not be under colonial rule and have their own self determination is “extreme”.
Also maybe go check out “On revolutionary medicine” by Che Guevara. I’ll also leave this quote from him.
…the life of a single human being, is worth a million times more than all the property of the richest man on earth…
I got banned from lemmygrad for saying acab means all cops lmao
they yearn for the glorious people’s boot
500 years ago these mfs were the pro monarchy serfs
Meanwhile anarchist organizing doesn’t have cops, it has Agents of Community Defense who definitely aren’t cops!
I have nothing against anarchists, but you need to see past slogans to be anything but a useful idiot to neoliberals.
I mean any person or entity that enforces oppressive laws is a bastard. The government of China is far from some sort of benevolent state.
there’s literally a community called “moretankie196”, they should go infest that one instead
“lemmygrad.ml” was the most infested for the last year, “lemmy.ml” the 2nd worst. They ban for being lucid. “.ml” stands for Marxist Leninist !
I thought ml stands for make love
actually it was chosen because the .ml domain is ludicrously cheap to get, like to the level of basically being free
Just removed like 40 comments and banned a buncha people.
holy shit they kicked the tankies out of 196
based
Based mod team
I do my best :)
based. also hiii moss :3
Hiiii :33 howru
im good! glad u got made a mod here as well!
I am too! I love contributing to communities that I like!!
thank u for ur service :3
lmao I moderate a website I’m not a firefighter
x3 small deeds still matter
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finds social media developed by tankies
looks inside
finds tankies
fr I’m down with having a good old purge eventually but noone should be surprised
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Literally doing the “so much for the tolerant left” shtick.
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What are some good actual communist lemmy communities that aren’t supporting the fucking capitalist imperialist russian invasion?
Can we have something like tankiejerk here? I seriously liked browsing that sub after a bad day with the red fashs.
that sub often tended towards outright anti-leftism
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To tankies fascist means opposing whatever flavor of authoritarian “communism” they prefer regardless of the reasons or context. This conveniently allows any number of pogroms, mass slaughters or engineered famines to be reframed as anti-fascist action, rather than a brutal expression of state power at the expense of the working class.
Okay Stalin’s Moustache,
Listen there’s more kinds of people than liberals tankies, and fascists.
There are also anarchist who can critizes these three groups ( and others) with out being within them.
I have no problem with ML and other comrades of various flavors but if your going to be really Into to stalin your not going to be working with me.
You should read about the Spanish civil war.
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Sure. There are plenty of people who are anarchists, who are people I would not work with. Like armchair anarchists.
And the word “tankie” does get used by armchair anarchists A lot often inappropriatly.
But still tankie is a valid crique of Red fascism.
And if you are a person who believes In communism, and can see it’s benefits but are unable to see it’s faults your probably a tankie.
Please remember on multiple instances The Soviets turned their back on anarchists. Like in the Spanish civil war.
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Then what would you have me call people who make excuses for invasion, oppression, and genocide just because it was committed by the Russian or Chinese government instead of a western one?
“tankies” criticize the Soviet union, you know? They also criticize the ebil See See Pee but apparently there’s no room for nuance
What’s your definition of “tankie”? If you’re willing to call out Putin’s homophobic journalist murdering authoritarian bullshit and the Chinese government’s massacring of protesters and genociding of ethnic minorities you’re not a tankie imo, you’re just a communist.
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Westerners slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for decades on end, and it was fine because we labeled them all terrorists.
No, it wasn’t fine, that’s kinda the point… It isn’t fine when the west does it, it’s not fine when others do it too…
It’s pretty typical tankie behavior that we’re seeing.
When you say it’s bad that Stalin implemented genocidal policies such as against the Krim Tartars, Kalmykks and other ethnic groups, they come back with wHaT aBoUt aMeRiCa.
They know that both things can be bad, but they have similar incentives to right-fascists. That is to say they’re liars.
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I’m confused on your point.
well some people who are called “tankies” do. some of them are just rabid bhreznevites
What year do you think it is?
2023, where the maoist New People’s Army is a stronghold for human rights & dignity for the Filipino people, engaged in open war against the truly authoritarian & cruel, Imperialist backed Phillipine Republic
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what with all the anti-communist fascists and all
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I really hate how ya’ll deliberately conflate tankies and all socialism/communism, and then conflate anyone being opposed to those concepts as inherently being a fascist.
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Tankies use “Liberal” just as the right does. Funny, that.
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um, what’s a tankie?
well is there any actually existing socialist country that you would support?
is there any actually existing socialist country that is actually socialist?
yes, cuba is pretty uncontroversialy a socialist country
The Cuban working class does not self-administer the economy. Although Cuba is as close so a success as Marxism can get, Fidel’s policies of homophobic persecution - regardless of the fact that he regretted them - is proof positive of why authoritarian policies go wrong. Why no single person should have that level of power.
Because in spite of Castro’s evident good intentions, and the otherwise high level of success that Cuba has achieved, those atrocities still happened. And because of Authoritarian policies, no-one within Cuba could opposite it while it went on without facing persecution.
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i’d never have seen it coming! /s
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Nah, I joined their Discord for a bit and everyone there was a leftist.
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didn’t they have a problem with people doing alt-right dogwhistles about anti-white racism recently? and it got so bad that they had to make a mod announcement telling people to stop doing it and all of the users started trying to explain to the mods how it definitely wasn’t a right wing dogwhistle
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Vaush moment
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What’s a tankie?
Hard-core authoritarian communist. The kinda peeps who support Stalin and shit
Isn’t “authoritarian communist” kind of an oxymoron? 😂 like the whole point of communism is that there isn’t a ruling class. I guess Russia and China were never really communist, just statist authoritarian right? I mean, the Nazis called themselves Socialist. They were nowhere near that
Stalin
Certain aspects of Stalin? Or in general?
Both. Fascist apologist like to cherry pick palatable characteristics of figures like Stalin, or Hitler, or Andrew Jackson in order to destigmatize thier idolatry of these figures. These “certain aspects” are the tip of the wedge they use to destroy rationality and peace.
A reasonable person who would like to discuss the benefits of communism would point to the value of labor, advantages of unions, and the dignity of the worker, not the evil, paranoid, and violent person of Stalin.
Always, the stink of fascism follows the idolization of so called “great men.” Excuses after excuses.
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The Holocaust most definitely happened and was perpetuated by the Nazis. Please don’t accuse me of denial.
Communism, or to be most specific, Marxism, was most definitely aligned against Hitler.
Stalin, was not. He would have watched Hitler kill all of Europe had the Nazis not attacked Russia. Same as the united states if Japan had not attacked them.
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I am of the strong opinion that fascism doesn’t care if you call yourself a communist, a capitalist, or a Democrat. If someone promotes a state which strips the power of local and individual labor for it’s own use; cultivates violence as a means of domestic control; supports expansionism; and finally the consolidation of power under a personality; I oppose it, and call it what it is.
And then they killed millions of people to enforce Stalin’s autocracy. How, exactly, is that better than Hitler?
Because they were attacked. Otherwise they would have happily sat out of ww2.
I appreciate you arguing even though it’s with a brick wall.
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When the Soviets invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968, there were some british leftists who cheered for those tanks driving into Prague. They proved by this that they didn’t care about leftism, socialism, democracy or anti-imperialism at all - they approved the imperialism and militarism of the Soviet regime.
Their praise for the rolling tanks is what gave them their name: Tankies.
So, people who love North Korea, or defend russia invading Ukraine, people, who stand by even the most autoritarian, anti-democratic, militaristic, imperialistic regimes - just because they call themselves “socialist” or “communist” - are “Tankies”.
oh ok so bhreznevites
And Stalinist, Maoists, and other authoritarian Communists.
Usually they also “love” countries like North Korea, China, and for whatever reason (aNtI iMpErIaLiSm), Syria, Russia, and so on.
Red Fascists. They use the same tactics of gas lighting and goal post shifting.
And engaging in bad faith but accusing everyone else of engaging in bad faith.
maoists??? I think you should read anything by mao. he was anything but “authoritarian”, he spend most of his time after 1949 taking a sledgehammer to bureaucracy & encouraging communities to be self reliant
And also going around making lunatic declaration, indifferent to the human suffering he was causing.
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So, people who love North Korea, or defend russia invading Ukraine, people, who stand by even the most autoritarian, anti-democratic, militaristic, imperialistic regimes - just because they call themselves “socialist” or “communist” - are “Tankies”.
Would be good to point out these people you are mentioning are not all the same.
There are people that Are critical of Russia, but don’t buy from western propaganda and are being called tankies too.
It is more like, if one dare to question the western narrative = tankie.
but don’t buy from western propaganda
i.e. are critical of russia, but stand by even the most autoritarian, anti-democratic, militaristic, imperialistic regimes - just because they call themselves “socialist” or “communist”, except for russias invasion of ukraine
lol.
most autoritarian, anti-democratic, militaristic, imperialistic regimes
you meant UK, USA or both?
i was just quoting the other commenter. but dont forget about china, nazi germany, north korea, etc.
Yeah sure. So lets ban the USA apologists together with all these tankies?
fine by me. fuck the US
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idk what u mean by that. im an anarcho-communist. and imo tankies are very anti-communist, even if they dont want to admit that to themselves.
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btw seens a paradox that you guys so “pro freedom” are asking for bans of people that you disagree.
it may seem that way, but no. pro-freedom actually means keeping people away who wanna take our freedom. i.e. authoritarians like tankies
keeping people away who wanna take our freedom. i.e. authoritarians like tankies
what did they do to take your freedom? built this whole platform we are using right now?
just because they do good things too doesnt make them perfect
isn’t that the same logic that the tankies are using though - because they think they have to be authoritarian to the people who they believe are trying to take their freedoms i.e. capitalists?
a community not welcoming assholes =/= a state killing everyone who’s in their way. one is authoritarian, the other is not.
“Paradox of tolerance”
what is your taking on Israel killing Palestinians?
That’s a genocide, and the western world deny.
Thanks, that was very helpful.
Now, can you explain the 196 reference for me?
Oh that’s a can of worms.
Also, I created a community for leftist infighting here:
https://lemmy.ml/c/leftistinfighting
It’s a free and open forum for respectful and good-natured name-calling, debating, and infighting. But dickheads aren’t allowed.
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A nazi with red aesthetic
It’s the prog-lib equivalent of woke. It’s used dismiss leftists with out engaging with our arguments. The term has lite ideological or argumentative use.
Libs use it that way, actual leftists use it to describe fascists that think they’re on the left and like red flags.
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If you’re in a position where you can freely oppress the capitalist class then you’ve already supplanted them and become the capitalist class.
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radical solidarity, mutual aid, armed community defense. none of these require the state apparatus.
Without a state to enforce environmental regulations, how do you intend to defend your community from pollution? By attacking the polluters with guns? They have guns, too. Probably more guns than you do, since pollution is so profitable.
Without a state to defend against invasion, what’s going to stop some other country from marching in and enslaving you? Small arms won’t protect you from a modern military; only a modern military of your own will, and without a state, who will command it?
Without a state to enforce mutual aid, what’s going to stop others from withholding it while taking yours? By the expectation that no one will be so greedy as to withhold needed aid? Then your proposed system will fail almost immediately. By some sort of aid credit that groups of people exchange equally in order to ensure that aid given equals aid received? Congratulations, you have invented capitalism.
The state apparatus exists for a reason. It has of course been abused, but we can’t simply get rid of it and expect everything to be fine, or else we’d have already gotten rid of it a long time ago.
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There won’t be a capitalist class when their assets are seized.
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Spez and Unidan made reddit and no-one likes them either
Unidan didn’t make reddit wtf u talking about
I mean Aaron Swartz
Aaron Swartz? The dead (by suicide) activist and philanthropist software developer and Reddit co-founder Aaron Swartz?
Yes that’s right, you see, Aaron Swartz was a “free speech absolutist” who allowed for things like /r/creepshots and allowed for cp on early reddit. https://archive.is/d4NPt
That’s enlightening indeed. Knowing the both of them are trash does explain many, many things about Reddit.
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fair
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