Let’s run through the recent story so people have it:
(First on FDR, that was before 45 years of anti-communist rhetoric, which frankly turned into anti-government-policy rhetoric.)
Jimmy Carter: Told people to conserve and got voted the fuck out.
Bill Clinton: After successive losses Bill figured out “it’s the economy stupid”. And when you run against an incumbent (Bush senior) you have to run from the center. So that’s what he did. And he won.
Gore: After the population hopefully warmed up with Bill Clinton, he stuck his head out left with climate change. And bam he lost the election. Thanks 3rd party protest voters!
Obama: So guess what Obama learned? Don’t stick your head out. He ran on broad “hope”, hoping the ambiguity would be enough considering Bush’s disastrous wars. And he won.
Hillary Clinton: After the population hopefully warmed up with Obama, she stuck her head out just a tiny itty little bit left with the Map Room to fight climate change. And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters!
Biden: Just like Obama learned from Gore, Biden learned from Hillary that you don’t stick your head out left. And he was running against an incumbent, so once again when you do that you run center. He’s actually been governing more from the left, but he ran center.
And people are amazed that they don’t run an extreme left platform? Every time they stick their head out a little itsy bitsy tiny bit left they lose. And the next guy learns to go to the center to win.
So how do you get them to move left? By giving them victories. Consistent and overwhelming victories. Because when they lose, like they’ve lost 20 years out of the last 24 years, they will go to the centre to find votes. You don’t get big steps without the small steps.
And you end up with the stupid idealist 3rd party voters that think “we’ll send a message with how we vote!” (Or don’t vote) not realizing the true impact they’re causing and the message it sends by having to go back to the center (which inches right more and more each time).
3rd party does have a place, but not right now with how screwed up things are.
Its on people pushing a candidate they dont even like. Happened with hillary, its happening again with genocide joe. Let us support progressive candidates we like
What happened with Hillary is that idiots decided to vote third party for a planted candidate and fucked everything up. Dividing progressive votes means a loss for progressives in every case. You will be part of the problem when Trump gets reelected and dismantles democracy. That will be the end of voting and the reemergence of mass suffrage. Oh and I forgot, climate change will continue to get worse and people will start getting sick because Trump has already promised to end climate/pollution regulations. Equal rights will be stripped and slavery will be brought back even for white people because, chances are, minimum wage will be wiped out. This dude plans to do so much damage if/when he gets back in office.
Obama ran on “hope” but, more importantly ,“change” and won in a landslide. Then he governed from the center as a status quo technocrat. He lost a Democratic super majority and almost the presidency to a slice of white bread.
Hillary Clinton was the most establishment centrist candidate the Democrats could have possibly run. Her campaign thought they could sweep the country by choosing a radical clown for the Republican opponent. They helped the Trump campaign get free media attention to win the primary, then they lost to the clown.
After 4 years of the clown, the country would have elected a ham sandwich. Even so, it was looking a bit close, so Biden did what most Democrats do in a close election and leaned left, almost sounding like Bernie lite at times. You can chart his popularity through his presidency and every uptick coincides with a move to the left, and every downtick with a move to the right.
I said itsy tiny little bit left with the map room. How many adjectives do you need? No one is saying she was far left, again see adjectives. That’s what she ran on and bam she lost the election. Thanks protest no voters!
Have you considered why you have to use so many adjectives? Because she didnt at all run on a progressive platform. And you are claiming Obama won for not running on any progressiveness. He extensively ran on climate change and healthcare reform. Youve stretched your characterizations so far to try to fit your theory that you put Hillary to the left of Obama. Maybe its your theory that needs changing instead.
I use those adjectives because you want to change it to “she’s not [far] left”. And I’m clarifying what her position was. It was just a tiny bit left.
The number of adjectives is because people like to skip over it l, so I add more to get people to notice. And you’re still at it! That’s twice that you try to force words into my mouth. So ciao.
You’re saying she’s not left. And: I didn’t say she’s left, I said she ran a teeny weeny itsy little bit left with the map room to fight climate change. And you wonder why I have the adjectives lol.
I promise you I see the words. The problem is that Obama won his elections, so you can only downplay her progressiveness so far. I wouldnt characterize his campaigns as being itsy bitsy teeny weeny left. You mentioned him campaigning on the word Hope, but he also famously campaigned on “Change we can believe in”.
You really drank the Hillary/DNC kool aid if you’re still blaming protest voters in 2024.
And the double think in your post is glaring by the way. She went a tiny bit to the left and bam she loses the election because protest voters refused to vote for her? How does this even add up?
No she lost because she was an establishment candidate out of touch with the will of the people who ran on her privilege rather than her policies. So out of touch that she had to manipulate the primary to even get into the general. And so out of touch that rather than accepting the loss and taking responsibility for it, she shamed voters.
It was two fold why Hilary lost. Trump appealed to manufacturing class. And the left wing protest no voted.
because protest voters refused to vote for her? How does this even add up?
Well since you had a fun tone I’ll take a fun tone. JFC because left voters did not show up. Instead of showing up, the left voters protest no voted. She stuck her head a tiny bit left with the map room and climate change, and the left wing did not show up to vote and instead did a no vote protest.
Right but the way your framing it you’re acting like she moved a little bit to the left and that was the reason that left voters didn’t vote for her.
At least that’s the way I’m understanding what you are saying which is why I asked. I wasn’t having fun. It was an honest question so I could hope to understand your position better.
I was having fun with my Kool-Aid comment. But that was a different paragraph.
A whole other way to frame this is that Hillary’s nepotism and the DNC lost that election by assuming that the left owes them their vote. Rather than thinking that politicians should earn our votes, and that the DNC should listen to the their base if they want voter turn out.
You can get into whatever psychological analysis you want (and I’ll do mine), at the end of it left voters don’t show up. She moved a little bit left with map room to fight climate change, a policy that should have been important to left voters, and left voters did not show up.
So the next candidate Biden learns he has to go to the center to find voters. This is what happens every single time. Every time. Happened with Carter & Bill Clinton, happened with Gore & Obama, happened with Hilary & Biden.
If you or any other voter want things to go left, you have to give dems consistent and overwhelming victories.
The DNC pursued a policy of progressive policy to counter Bush.
Obama won and the party immediately began shifting right. Eight years of pulling away from progressive policy.
And then Trump won, at which point you saw a leftist presence being entertained again by his midterms.
So to answer your final question: The record shows victories appear to cause the Democratic Party to move right. Often argued as a result or consequence of any implemented leftist policy. Backlash, if you will, but still.
Obama won and the party immediately began shifting right. Eight years of pulling away from progressive policy.
Guess how many years Obama had a Dem House of Representatives and Dem Senate? 2 years. Not 8. Only 2. That’s when we got the ACA though.
Contrary to how many people talk the president is not a King. The president does not pass laws, Congress does. And Dems need control of all 3 (presidency, house of reps, and Senate) to pass much of anything. So when the lose control, like they lost control for 6 years of Obama’s presidency, they have to reach across the aisle. Do you remember what happened? The GOP shut down the government under Obama.
Obama had 1 victory and then 3 losses. 1 victory for 2 years and then 3 losses for 6 of his years.
You want them to not reach across the aisle? Then give Dems victories in all 3 of house of reps, Senate, and presidency.
(Btw guess how much the Dems have had all 3. They have had it for 4 years out of the last 24 years. That’s right. They basically never have it. Want to include Bill Clinton? Then it’s 6 years of the last 32 years. What to go back further? Then it’s 6 years of the last 44 years. Read that again: 6 years out of the last 44 fucking years. And if you want filibuster proof majority, them it’s 4 MONTHS of the last 44 years. Not 4 years, 4 MONTHS of the last 44 years. You need to readjust what you think are victories.)
I think you read way more into what I wrote. Obama won. Party moved right. Both statements of fact. The ‘backlash’ I mentioned.
But alright.
Progressivism has strong resistance, as demonstrated. It takes a leader like FDR to withstand that resistance and marshal their party towards a political goal. The president is the executive branch but they are also the effective leader of their party’s and their political goals.
Leaders who buckle under pressure or demand their followers or voters lead the way for them are incredibly weak. Lame ducks. A failure.
I didn’t “read into it”, I explained how government works. You missed the entire reason why Obama had to reach across the aisle. Which he had to do for 6 of the 8 years of his presidency. I’m tempted to write why but it was all written out above.
If you think “Obama won” and “[be a] leader” is how it works, then you desperately need to learn how it actually works.
I don’t really know why you’re working on such a condescending manner over something I am in no disagreement about? That’s what I meant by reading into it? FDR absolutely acted as a leader for his Party and marshaled forward progressive legislation and policies. And yes, you have clearly and dismissively explained that Obama absolutely did not. There should be no disagreement here.
The DNC from 05-09 operated on a progressive platform to reach out everywhere in all 50 states. That strategy ended in 09 right after Obama took office. Here’s an article from 2009 talking about the division that already existed in before those 6 remaining years. I am sorry for any paywall, its a nyt thing but its to show that there was a clear rightward movement from the start.
Obama absolutely did not. There should be no disagreement here.
Big disagreement. You seem to think “acted as a leader” is all that matters and all that’s necessary. I’m saying that’s dead wrong. Congress is what matters. The house of resentatives is what matters. The Senate is what matters. That’s how it works. The president can’t do much without the House of Representatives and the Senate.
President can’t do jack shit with all the leadership in the world if he does not have congress, if he does not have the house of representatives, if he does not have the senate.
So you want to talk the first two years of Obama? He likely reached out for two reasons. One: he wanted to mend the divisions after Bush’s disastrous wars. Get the country unified and back on track and all that jazz. Two: any intelligent candidate knows it’s unlikely they’re going to have control of Congress for all eight years, so he wanted to come off as reasonable and could be worked with, so that he could still accomplish things later in his presidency. I barely blame him for that. Who knew that the GOP was going to explode and become obstructionist to that degree because a half black man got elected. (Btw that’s why allusions to FDR don’t cut anything today. Completely different time.) (Also btw Biden learned from that and said nuts to it, he’s doing what needs to be done.)
Now back to the main point about Obama and how leadership is not the be all of everything. If anything Obama proves this. Obama had leadership (if you want to say that). But Obama only had Congress the first two out of his eight years. The remaining six years he did not have congress. The GOP had Congress. All the leadership in the world did not matter because he did not have Congress for six of his eight years. All the leadership in the world for six of his eight years did not matter. And this was proven when not when the GOP shut down the government under Obama. Congress. has. control. Leadership does not matter (in that way). Control of Congress is what matters.
I didn’t say leadership was the end all be all. I said it was a feature of FDR: the topic of the post, and by extension: being a poor or weak leader is a disaster for a party. I used the term ‘lame-duck’ which is a common term for a weakened president whose party doesn’t have control of legislative branch.
I don’t see how stating the features of an effective or ineffective presidency so quickly translates to some total lack of understanding how American governance or legislation works. Nor do I see how it demonstrates an extremely narrow position I don’t hold or have argued for. Your need to explain is condescending, arrogant, and entirely unnecessary.
There is a term called “bully pulpit”. It is a very common and well known concept in politics. FDR used it well. Obama did not. FDR was a very successful president. Obama was not, at least not for progressives or leftists.
Obama had leadership (if you want to say that).
For the level of argumentative browbeating you’re engaging ing and then you… FFS.
Honestly the most I can get from your previous replies is that leadership does it, accomplishes it, etc And I’m explaining to you that it’s control of Congress.
The context in which you used lame duck was in the context of lack of leadership. Not a lack of party control of Congress.
FDR: the topic of the post,
You replied to my comment which was about recent history. I’m explaining why you/the post can’t just say “but FDR did it and was popular, so why can’t anyone else”.
president. Obama was not, at least not for progressives or leftist
Because he did not have congress. That’s what matters. Because the GOP became incredibly obstructionist.
Honestly I have no idea what your position is anymore. You seem to briefly admit it’s Congress, then (from what I can gather) you’re right back to leadership with the bully pulpit. I think I’ve explained well enough that leadership does not matter (in that way). It’s Congress. If you the voter want progress, then you vote in Dem congresses, because a Dem president with all the leadership in the world is not enough.
Btw I’m not responding your repeated attacks on me. I may be a bit exasperated and to the point, but that’s because there’s way bad information out there and honestly that’s pretty much what I see from you with this stuff about leadership, and why Obama had to reach across the aisle later in his presidency.
Obama had leadership (if yousomeone wants to say that).
Ok I’ll clarify that to someone, didn’t mean you specifically, someone in the general population.
Let’s run through the recent story so people have it:
(First on FDR, that was before 45 years of anti-communist rhetoric, which frankly turned into anti-government-policy rhetoric.)
Jimmy Carter: Told people to conserve and got voted the fuck out.
Bill Clinton: After successive losses Bill figured out “it’s the economy stupid”. And when you run against an incumbent (Bush senior) you have to run from the center. So that’s what he did. And he won.
Gore: After the population hopefully warmed up with Bill Clinton, he stuck his head out left with climate change. And bam he lost the election. Thanks 3rd party protest voters!
Obama: So guess what Obama learned? Don’t stick your head out. He ran on broad “hope”, hoping the ambiguity would be enough considering Bush’s disastrous wars. And he won.
Hillary Clinton: After the population hopefully warmed up with Obama, she stuck her head out just a tiny itty little bit left with the Map Room to fight climate change. And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters!
Biden: Just like Obama learned from Gore, Biden learned from Hillary that you don’t stick your head out left. And he was running against an incumbent, so once again when you do that you run center. He’s actually been governing more from the left, but he ran center.
And people are amazed that they don’t run an extreme left platform? Every time they stick their head out a little itsy bitsy tiny bit left they lose. And the next guy learns to go to the center to win.
So how do you get them to move left? By giving them victories. Consistent and overwhelming victories. Because when they lose, like they’ve lost 20 years out of the last 24 years, they will go to the centre to find votes. You don’t get big steps without the small steps.
And you end up with the stupid idealist 3rd party voters that think “we’ll send a message with how we vote!” (Or don’t vote) not realizing the true impact they’re causing and the message it sends by having to go back to the center (which inches right more and more each time).
3rd party does have a place, but not right now with how screwed up things are.
Its forever going to be “not right now” for you, so we’re not waiting anymore, its only going to happen if we make it right now.
No, no it’s not. And if Trump is elected again, it’s on anyone who things as much.
Its on people pushing a candidate they dont even like. Happened with hillary, its happening again with genocide joe. Let us support progressive candidates we like
What happened with Hillary is that idiots decided to vote third party for a planted candidate and fucked everything up. Dividing progressive votes means a loss for progressives in every case. You will be part of the problem when Trump gets reelected and dismantles democracy. That will be the end of voting and the reemergence of mass suffrage. Oh and I forgot, climate change will continue to get worse and people will start getting sick because Trump has already promised to end climate/pollution regulations. Equal rights will be stripped and slavery will be brought back even for white people because, chances are, minimum wage will be wiped out. This dude plans to do so much damage if/when he gets back in office.
I agree, we should all vote for the progressive candidate.
Let’s try the more recent history again.
Obama ran on “hope” but, more importantly ,“change” and won in a landslide. Then he governed from the center as a status quo technocrat. He lost a Democratic super majority and almost the presidency to a slice of white bread.
Hillary Clinton was the most establishment centrist candidate the Democrats could have possibly run. Her campaign thought they could sweep the country by choosing a radical clown for the Republican opponent. They helped the Trump campaign get free media attention to win the primary, then they lost to the clown.
After 4 years of the clown, the country would have elected a ham sandwich. Even so, it was looking a bit close, so Biden did what most Democrats do in a close election and leaned left, almost sounding like Bernie lite at times. You can chart his popularity through his presidency and every uptick coincides with a move to the left, and every downtick with a move to the right.
In a close election, and when running against an incumbent, Dems go to the center. Because that’s where the voters are.
You’re the first person I’ve ever heard say Biden leaned left.
He certainly paid lip service to the left.
Still waiting on any semblance of substantive policy regarding healthcare, student debt, income inequality, or labour rights.
Remember when the rail workers tried to strike and R̶e̶a̶g̶a̶n̶ Biden told them to get back to work?
Of course, this all pales in comparison to the giant genocide elephant in the room…
Holy shit trying to blame hillarys loss on being too progressive. Somehow more progressive than Obama.
I said itsy tiny little bit left with the map room. How many adjectives do you need? No one is saying she was far left, again see adjectives. That’s what she ran on and bam she lost the election. Thanks protest no voters!
Have you considered why you have to use so many adjectives? Because she didnt at all run on a progressive platform. And you are claiming Obama won for not running on any progressiveness. He extensively ran on climate change and healthcare reform. Youve stretched your characterizations so far to try to fit your theory that you put Hillary to the left of Obama. Maybe its your theory that needs changing instead.
I use those adjectives because you want to change it to “she’s not [far] left”. And I’m clarifying what her position was. It was just a tiny bit left.
The number of adjectives is because people like to skip over it l, so I add more to get people to notice. And you’re still at it! That’s twice that you try to force words into my mouth. So ciao.
Hey speaking of words in peoples mouths
Ok take out the far.
You’re saying she’s not left. And: I didn’t say she’s left, I said she ran a teeny weeny itsy little bit left with the map room to fight climate change. And you wonder why I have the adjectives lol.
I promise you I see the words. The problem is that Obama won his elections, so you can only downplay her progressiveness so far. I wouldnt characterize his campaigns as being itsy bitsy teeny weeny left. You mentioned him campaigning on the word Hope, but he also famously campaigned on “Change we can believe in”.
Bro you just look like you don’t know how to read. Take the L
You really drank the Hillary/DNC kool aid if you’re still blaming protest voters in 2024.
And the double think in your post is glaring by the way. She went a tiny bit to the left and bam she loses the election because protest voters refused to vote for her? How does this even add up?
No she lost because she was an establishment candidate out of touch with the will of the people who ran on her privilege rather than her policies. So out of touch that she had to manipulate the primary to even get into the general. And so out of touch that rather than accepting the loss and taking responsibility for it, she shamed voters.
It was two fold why Hilary lost. Trump appealed to manufacturing class. And the left wing protest no voted.
Well since you had a fun tone I’ll take a fun tone. JFC because left voters did not show up. Instead of showing up, the left voters protest no voted. She stuck her head a tiny bit left with the map room and climate change, and the left wing did not show up to vote and instead did a no vote protest.
Right but the way your framing it you’re acting like she moved a little bit to the left and that was the reason that left voters didn’t vote for her.
At least that’s the way I’m understanding what you are saying which is why I asked. I wasn’t having fun. It was an honest question so I could hope to understand your position better.
I was having fun with my Kool-Aid comment. But that was a different paragraph.
A whole other way to frame this is that Hillary’s nepotism and the DNC lost that election by assuming that the left owes them their vote. Rather than thinking that politicians should earn our votes, and that the DNC should listen to the their base if they want voter turn out.
You can get into whatever psychological analysis you want (and I’ll do mine), at the end of it left voters don’t show up. She moved a little bit left with map room to fight climate change, a policy that should have been important to left voters, and left voters did not show up.
So the next candidate Biden learns he has to go to the center to find voters. This is what happens every single time. Every time. Happened with Carter & Bill Clinton, happened with Gore & Obama, happened with Hilary & Biden.
If you or any other voter want things to go left, you have to give dems consistent and overwhelming victories.
The DNC pursued a policy of progressive policy to counter Bush.
Obama won and the party immediately began shifting right. Eight years of pulling away from progressive policy.
And then Trump won, at which point you saw a leftist presence being entertained again by his midterms.
So to answer your final question: The record shows victories appear to cause the Democratic Party to move right. Often argued as a result or consequence of any implemented leftist policy. Backlash, if you will, but still.
Guess how many years Obama had a Dem House of Representatives and Dem Senate? 2 years. Not 8. Only 2. That’s when we got the ACA though.
Contrary to how many people talk the president is not a King. The president does not pass laws, Congress does. And Dems need control of all 3 (presidency, house of reps, and Senate) to pass much of anything. So when the lose control, like they lost control for 6 years of Obama’s presidency, they have to reach across the aisle. Do you remember what happened? The GOP shut down the government under Obama.
Obama had 1 victory and then 3 losses. 1 victory for 2 years and then 3 losses for 6 of his years.
You want them to not reach across the aisle? Then give Dems victories in all 3 of house of reps, Senate, and presidency.
(Btw guess how much the Dems have had all 3. They have had it for 4 years out of the last 24 years. That’s right. They basically never have it. Want to include Bill Clinton? Then it’s 6 years of the last 32 years. What to go back further? Then it’s 6 years of the last 44 years. Read that again: 6 years out of the last 44 fucking years. And if you want filibuster proof majority, them it’s 4 MONTHS of the last 44 years. Not 4 years, 4 MONTHS of the last 44 years. You need to readjust what you think are victories.)
I think you read way more into what I wrote. Obama won. Party moved right. Both statements of fact. The ‘backlash’ I mentioned.
But alright.
Progressivism has strong resistance, as demonstrated. It takes a leader like FDR to withstand that resistance and marshal their party towards a political goal. The president is the executive branch but they are also the effective leader of their party’s and their political goals.
Leaders who buckle under pressure or demand their followers or voters lead the way for them are incredibly weak. Lame ducks. A failure.
I didn’t “read into it”, I explained how government works. You missed the entire reason why Obama had to reach across the aisle. Which he had to do for 6 of the 8 years of his presidency. I’m tempted to write why but it was all written out above.
If you think “Obama won” and “[be a] leader” is how it works, then you desperately need to learn how it actually works.
I don’t really know why you’re working on such a condescending manner over something I am in no disagreement about? That’s what I meant by reading into it? FDR absolutely acted as a leader for his Party and marshaled forward progressive legislation and policies. And yes, you have clearly and dismissively explained that Obama absolutely did not. There should be no disagreement here.
The DNC from 05-09 operated on a progressive platform to reach out everywhere in all 50 states. That strategy ended in 09 right after Obama took office. Here’s an article from 2009 talking about the division that already existed in before those 6 remaining years. I am sorry for any paywall, its a nyt thing but its to show that there was a clear rightward movement from the start.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/26/health/policy/26dems.html
As a result: Obama spent his presidency reaching out to republicans and mostly being humiliated. I don’t disagree with you. It is what happened.
Sigh. I’m explaining how things work.
Big disagreement. You seem to think “acted as a leader” is all that matters and all that’s necessary. I’m saying that’s dead wrong. Congress is what matters. The house of resentatives is what matters. The Senate is what matters. That’s how it works. The president can’t do much without the House of Representatives and the Senate.
President can’t do jack shit with all the leadership in the world if he does not have congress, if he does not have the house of representatives, if he does not have the senate.
So you want to talk the first two years of Obama? He likely reached out for two reasons. One: he wanted to mend the divisions after Bush’s disastrous wars. Get the country unified and back on track and all that jazz. Two: any intelligent candidate knows it’s unlikely they’re going to have control of Congress for all eight years, so he wanted to come off as reasonable and could be worked with, so that he could still accomplish things later in his presidency. I barely blame him for that. Who knew that the GOP was going to explode and become obstructionist to that degree because a half black man got elected. (Btw that’s why allusions to FDR don’t cut anything today. Completely different time.) (Also btw Biden learned from that and said nuts to it, he’s doing what needs to be done.)
Now back to the main point about Obama and how leadership is not the be all of everything. If anything Obama proves this. Obama had leadership (if you want to say that). But Obama only had Congress the first two out of his eight years. The remaining six years he did not have congress. The GOP had Congress. All the leadership in the world did not matter because he did not have Congress for six of his eight years. All the leadership in the world for six of his eight years did not matter. And this was proven when not when the GOP shut down the government under Obama. Congress. has. control. Leadership does not matter (in that way). Control of Congress is what matters.
I didn’t say leadership was the end all be all. I said it was a feature of FDR: the topic of the post, and by extension: being a poor or weak leader is a disaster for a party. I used the term ‘lame-duck’ which is a common term for a weakened president whose party doesn’t have control of legislative branch.
I don’t see how stating the features of an effective or ineffective presidency so quickly translates to some total lack of understanding how American governance or legislation works. Nor do I see how it demonstrates an extremely narrow position I don’t hold or have argued for. Your need to explain is condescending, arrogant, and entirely unnecessary.
There is a term called “bully pulpit”. It is a very common and well known concept in politics. FDR used it well. Obama did not. FDR was a very successful president. Obama was not, at least not for progressives or leftists.
For the level of argumentative browbeating you’re engaging ing and then you… FFS.
Honestly the most I can get from your previous replies is that leadership does it, accomplishes it, etc And I’m explaining to you that it’s control of Congress.
The context in which you used lame duck was in the context of lack of leadership. Not a lack of party control of Congress.
You replied to my comment which was about recent history. I’m explaining why you/the post can’t just say “but FDR did it and was popular, so why can’t anyone else”.
Because he did not have congress. That’s what matters. Because the GOP became incredibly obstructionist.
Honestly I have no idea what your position is anymore. You seem to briefly admit it’s Congress, then (from what I can gather) you’re right back to leadership with the bully pulpit. I think I’ve explained well enough that leadership does not matter (in that way). It’s Congress. If you the voter want progress, then you vote in Dem congresses, because a Dem president with all the leadership in the world is not enough.
Btw I’m not responding your repeated attacks on me. I may be a bit exasperated and to the point, but that’s because there’s way bad information out there and honestly that’s pretty much what I see from you with this stuff about leadership, and why Obama had to reach across the aisle later in his presidency.
Ok I’ll clarify that to someone, didn’t mean you specifically, someone in the general population.