• Venicon@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    11 months ago

    Okay imma need an explanation for the middle bottom and bottom right panels, what are they?

    Also love the idea that magic is just science we haven’t explained yet. Most of us would be burned s as witches in the past based on our current knowledge

  • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    11 months ago

    Weird how magic and mystery stops being magic when scientists have words for it.

    One day we’ll discover the afterlife, but we’ll just call them “Post-Human Conciousness Wells” or something, and insist it totally isn’t the same thing as that ancient superstition.

    Cmon, you wanna tell me the world is purely material when our math literally uses imaginary numbers to make sense of things?

    • eran_morad@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      11 months ago

      Imaginary numbers are merely a poorly named mathematical construct used to reconcile the empirically observable phenomena of nature (e.g., summations of waves). They’re the means by which we achieve mathematical closure under exponentiation. You could call them whatever the F you want, so long as they could be used to represent vectors in the complex plane.

      What reason do you have to believe in anything outside of material nature?

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        11 months ago

        Friend of mine (who is dead now ironically enough, and damn, I miss him), wrote a story about this. Where the dead show up on some random planet in the Andromeda Galaxy, in their prime, one that’s infinitely large and does the minecraft thing where it generates as you go, and contains the means to do pretty much anything except for leave… with them just showing up in the Capital City of the planet if they die again, which cannot be done of natural causes here.

        The dead initially think it’s Heaven, but then they notice “Heaven” is being powered by a Dyson Sphere, eventually they connect enough of the dots to realize that their world is a simulation.

        The protagonist is the grandchild of one of the deceased who wound up here after testing experimental teleportation technology, turns out the simulation brought him there to inform him why teleportation technology shouldn’t be invented.

        Eventually the grandchild goes back to Earth, agreeing to keep this a secret, for fear that if people knew about this it would create “Dyson Sphere cults” and would encourage people to commit mass suicide, just “dying to get there”

    • walkercricket@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      11 months ago

      Math is a tool of the mind to describe our world, imaginary numbers is only a extension of that tool to allow us to go beyond what mathematical logic prevents us to do, while still getting in the end a real number. Math, despite being powerful, is a flawed tool, so getting around its flaws by creating things like imaginary numbers isn’t absurd and doesn’t make the result any less real at the end.

      On the other hand, I don’t think calling everything we don’t understand “magic” or the new trending words “supernatural” and “a miracle” and give god or anything else (like karma) credit for it would be more clever. Back then, we didn’t understood the concept of thunder and interpreted it as god’s wrath. Now, we understand it’s a transmission of electricity from the negatively charged clouds to the neutral ground through ionized particles in the air. I don’t think that scientists now, despite referring to the same phenomena, are talking about the same thing as we did a long time ago.

      So no, no scientist will discover the afterlife “but we’ll just call them “Post-Human Conciousness Wells” or something, and insist it totally isn’t the same thing as that ancient superstition.” as it won’t be.

        • dyen49k@kbin.socialOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          11 months ago

          nope, they’re just one mathematical construct out of many (e.g. 2D vector calculus or geometric algebra), and they just happened to stick

              • biddy@feddit.nl
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                11 months ago

                Are you interested in proving me wrong, or figuring out the right answer? If you actually read that article instead of just the title, you would have noticed at the end it says

                This leads us to say a few words about the widely held opinion that, because complex numbers are fundamental to quantum mechanics, it is desirable to “complexify” every bit of physics, including spacetime itself. It will be apparent that we disagree with this view, and hope earnestly that it is quite wrong, and that complex numbers (as mystical uninterpreted scalars) will prove to be unnecessary even in quantum mechanics

                They literally say that “complex numbers are fundamental to quantum mechanics”. In other fields of physics complex numbers are just a convenient tool, but in quantum mechanics they are(as far as we know) fundamental, even if the author hopes that to be proved wrong at some point.

                You seem like you know a bit about alternatives to complex numbers in other areas of physics, so it would be interesting to have a further conversation, as long as you stop being so defensive.

                Complex numbers seem to be used either as 2d vectors or as representation of waves/circles in exponentials, is there an alternative that combines both of those uses?

                • dyen49k@kbin.socialOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  11 months ago

                  Yep, there’s an alternative, i.e. equivalent mathematical formulation that does everything complex numbers do: the geometric algebra introduced in the article I posted earlier.

                  The fundamental object of GA is the “multivector”, which is essentially a sum of scalars, vectors, bivectors and higher grade elements. For instance, you could take the unit x-vector and add it onto some number, say 2, to get the multivector M = 2 + e_x. (To be precise, the space of multivectors is the direct sum over the n-th wedge of the base vector space, n = 0 to dim V).
                  Another important concept is k-vectors, which are essentially k-dimensional volume elements. For instance, a bivector is an area with a direction, and a trivector is a volume with a direction (in 3D there is only one possible “direction” for the volume, but in 4D spacetime volumes itself can be oriented like surfaces can be in 3D).

                  Then, you introduce the “geometric product” for two vectors a and b:
                  ab = a·b + a ∧ b
                  where a · b is the normal scalar product between the two vectors, and a ∧ b is the wedge product between them. The wedge product essentially is the plane spanned by the two vectors, and is antisymmetric (a ∧ b = - b ∧ a, because the orientation of the plane is reversed when exchanging the vector). For instance, the unit bivector in the x-y plane is given by
                  B_xy = e_x e_y = e_x ∧ e_y
                  Notice how the scalar product part of the geometric product is zero, and only the wedge (i.e. bivector part) remains

                  In 3D, there are four types (“grades”) of objects: scalars, vectors, bivectors (also known as 3D pseudovectors) and trivectors (or also known as 3D pseudoscalars). It’s already a very rich subject and has many advantages over classical vector calculus, but for replacing complex numbers, we’re mainly concerned with the 2D case.

                  In the 2D case, there are three types of objects: Scalars, 2D vectors, and bivectors/2D pseudoscalars. There is only one possible orientation for a 2D plane in 2D, so we just denote a bivector with area A as B = A I, where I = e_x ∧ e_y is the only unit bivector/2D pseudoscalar.

                  A nice thing we notice about the I is that it squares to -1 with the geometric product:
                  I^2 = (e_x ∧ e_y)^2 = (e_x e_y)^2 = e_x e_y e_x e_y = - e_x e_y e_y e_x = -e_x e_x = -1
                  The first step works because the scalar product part between e_x and e_y is zero. The second step is just writing out the square. The third step is e_y e_x = e_y ∧ e_x = - e_x ∧ e_y = -e_x e_y, which again works because e_x · e_y = 0. We see that the 2d pseudoscalar I behaves just like the “classic” imaginary unit i.

                  Because the geometric product is associative, and commutative if only scalars and bivectors are involved, the geometric notion of scalars and 2D pseudoscalars can fully replace the notion of complex numbers by making the substitution a + bi -> a + bI.

                  If you want to learn more about GA, I can recommend Doran, Lasenby: Geometric Algebra for Physicsists :)

  • Hexagon@feddit.it
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    17
    ·
    11 months ago

    We have cats that can be alive and dead at the same time. Perfectly normal, no magic involved.

    And we can make you age slower than your twin brother, just go on a very fast space trip. Still no magic needed. It’s totally legit