What a silly hill to die on. This is blatantly unconstitutional. That’s obvious to everyone, even those of us who might agree in spirit. So it’s just a waste. A waste of time and tax payer money. New Mexico is gonna spend time and resources on this that could be better spent elsewhere.
What’s more it wastes political capital. Capital that is gonna be needed soon for the Democratic party. So I can’t fathom why she’s doing this. She just gave conservatives the high ground and a huge rallying call.
With the current court, it is unconstitutional. Several states banned public carry when the country was founded including Virginia so it’s not like that was unheard of at the time.
100% this. It feels like sabotage.
A judge has already issued a temporary order to block the ban.
Thank goodness, the murders can continue
I know right, this governor should have made murder illegal instead touches forhead
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Yep. Waiting until after murders occur is definitely the right approach to curbing gun violence.
Exactly, that’s why she should have made murder illegal a long time ago instead so the murders stop without the courts ruling it unconstitutional forhead touch x2
From what I saw, even the Democrat AG of New Mexico won’t support or defend this in court.
Yeah, she’s also lost the support of many of her party members.
Open or concealed carry is insane. You Americans are unhinged.
This is from a gun owner.
Believing a politician can unilaterally suspend a right protected by both the federal and state constitution is unhinged.
I wasn’t commenting on that, I was commenting on carrying a gun in public
Licensed concealed carriers have a lower violent crime rate than the general public. So its unhinged to ban these individuals from carrying thinking it’ll stop criminals.
Again, I wasn’t commenting about the ban. Just the desire to carry a gun in public.
Ah gotcha. Its about wanting to be safe. Violence happens unfortunately, so I concealed carry to give me the ability to defend myself (and more importantly my partner) if I ever am faced with that.
No offense but that is extremely paranoid. I love in a not so great part of a major city and have never really felt unsafe enough to feel the need to carry. Hell, even my step dad, who was a police officer and has been shot at, does not feel the need to carry. I guess I could see if you live somewhere super dangerous like St Louis or Wichita but it seems a bit silly otherwise.
Also, shouldn’t your partner be the one carrying of they are the less safe of the two of you?
I’m not in st louis but I’ve had a knife pulled on me for attempting to enter walmart. Luckily however the guy decided not to attack, idk if it had anything to do with me grabbing the grip of my carry pistol or not, but I’d imagine it’s pretty likely that’s the reason he started running away.
Paranoid or not, I was able to afford food for that night and avoid being stabbed, so I’ll just consider it my “good luck charm.”
I don’t see it as paranoid. I totally agree with you its unlikely I’ll ever need it, but it costs me nothing to concealed carry where I can. Worst case my pants are slightly less comfortable, best case I save a life.
My partner is disabled and is of a very small stature which means I’m a far faster and more accurate shot so I carry when its the 2 of us. If theyre alone they carry a lower power pistol so they can handle using it.
sorry you feel unsafe in your country. You should move
Crime happens everywhere, some places more then others sure. But I prefer to have the right to the tools to protect myself, rather than just hope that I’ll never need them.
Licensed concealed carriers have a lower violent crime rate than the general public.
Than the general public in America maybe, but legal gun owners in other countries have a violent crime rate of functionally zero, since they’re properly vetted through laws that aren’t dogshit.
But even giving you that point, what about all the violent crime those permissive laws enable?
Over 70% of mass shooters use legal firearms. Of the remaining, most are teenagers who took the poorly secured firearm of a family member.
There is no magic gun fairy distributing illegal firearms. Every firearm in the hands of a criminal was either bought legally, stolen from a “responsible gun owner” who didn’t secure it, straw purchased or purchased through a loophole.
Nevertheless, the pro-gun community opposes more robust background checks, mandatory safe storage laws or the closing of loopholes.
And what does the public get in return? Mostly just shot because none of the pro-gun promises have come true.
Good guys with guns intervene in 3% of shootings. The crime rate remains the same as comparable countries. The country is no more free when measured by any metric except guns. The government spies on and kills its own citizens.
The gun laws are a failure.
I don’t feel like writing an essay to address all your points, I don’t have the time right now I’m sorry. Ultimately it comes down to the fact the highest law (and most state constitutions) of the land gives us the inalienable right to arms. Period. (And no “well regulated” does not mean legal regulations)
I believe we would be far better off dealing with the root of violence, like many European countries have done but gun control advocates like to only focus on gun control laws. People with financial, health, reproductive, and employment security don’t commit violent crimes. Things like labor protections, maternity/paternity leave, mandatory vacation time, physical and mental healthcare that won’t bankrupt you are some of the things that dramatically reduce all violent crime regardless of the tool used.
Look at violent crimes in the US compared to the UK for things like murder using only the human body (ie kicks, punches, strangulation, etc), its lower per 100k in the UK and many other European countries. There’s no body control laws restricting how strong or trained your body can be, yet its lower. Its because people who’s needs are actually met don’t need to turn to or are driven to crime, our social protections in the USA suck ass and need to be fixed.
I agree with you. Even if the US got rid of every single gun in the country we’d probably still have just as many murders. There’s something else at play here that causes us to be violent. As a general rule happy people don’t kill others. Legislation to fix our social issues would go a long way towards reducing violence, but it’s a whole lot easier to just say “guns bad”.
Even if the US got rid of every single gun in the country we’d probably still have just as many murders.
Absolutely not. Your odds of surviving a knife attack are an order of magnitude higher than of you are shot.
That’s a horrible selection bias though. That is basically saying “this group of people with no violent crimes in their records has a lower violent crime rate than the general public which does.” Of course they do.
Yes. You’re right, these people are vetted by the state and authorized because they passed BG checks and firearms proficiency tests. Which is why a law targeting this group is dumb (beyond just being unconstitutional).
Definitely should have been in your initial point since I have often seen that point used by gun nuts as if they are some paragon of lawfulness. Permitted concealed carry owners are definitely not the ones committing violent crime in New Mexico. Can’t really say the same for quite a few other states that allow permitless concealed carry though.
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I think the last time we cared about another country’s opinion of how we live our lives was in 1775.
We’d definitely be better off if we actually care about how countries that are objectively better in multiple metrics do things differently.
Like oh I don’t know, Healthcare. Plus the overwhelming amount of gun violence that doesn’t exist in any other country than our own, the other ones are probably on to something.
Well, how the people who haven’t been shot yet live their lives at least.
I wish I could give you a gold award.
Hah, a classic!
Goddam…we love our guns, though.
Finally, somewhere I might be able to visit there and feel at least a little bit safe in public.
you think criminals are going to follow this decree?
You think every criminal with a gun started the day as a criminal with a gun? The majority of mass shootings started that day as “just another perfectly legal person with a gun being allowed to carry wherever”.
Tell me how many of the last 50 mass shootings were done by someone who was already a “criminal with a gun”
There’s plenty of places you can feel safe in public.
They’re just not in America.
Well, its kill or be killed out there. If you’re the only one alive, they can only hear your side of the story
Literally unconstitutional.
Yet there’s plenty of precedent at the federal and state level for places where carrying guns is not allowed. 🤔
Specific places, generally, not open public places as specified in the article.
Are national parks not considered open public places?
Thanks to Obama, no seriously, you are allowed to carry firearms in almost all national parks.
They are considered federal land so basically get treated the same as if you tried to bring a gun into the capitol.
Don’t do this btw.
This is incorrect. It is 100% legal to carry a firearm in a National Park assuming that you are legally allowed to carry in that particular state.
You cannot carry a firearm into any federal building however, which includes places like the capitol building, post offices, or buildings within National Parks such as museums, ranger stations, gift shops, etc.
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Well regulated
means well-supplied and ready to go on a moment’s notice
In working order which is why you had to register your firearm and have it inspected to make sure it worked. And that ready to go at a moment’s notice was because they were needed for the defense of the country. Public carry was banned in a good chunk of the states.
I’d say well-maintained and prepared for use. As in tools need be well-maintained to be useful.
Then why are morbidly obese, middle aged men with zero combat training allowed to own guns?
Well supplied means well supplied
As does “well-regulated,” especially at the time when that amendment was drafted.
No it didnt
Low-effort and incorrect.
Its historically always meant basically what it means today https://www.etymonline.com/word/regulate#:~:text=early%2015c.%2C%20regulaten%2C%20%22,to%20lead%2C%20rule%22).
Is part of the dependent clause. Its reasoning.
If you paid attention in English class youd know this
Just a flourish of words that dont matter?
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Yes, actually.
How convenient, the words that dont matter are the ones you dont want to matter
Let me try to explain:
The 2nd Amendment has two clauses, a prefatory clause and an operative clause. The operative clause is the one that secures the right, and the prefatory clause informs it. However, not being the operative clause, it’s ultimately not anything from which rights are derived, nor restricted. The bill of rights wasn’t written to restrict the rights of the people.
The prefatory clause is, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…,” which informs the reader as to why the latter exists. So, you can argue until you’re blue in the face about how “well regulated militia” was intended, but ultimately, its immaterial as it’s not part of the operative clause.
“… the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” This is the operative clause and the only one you really need to be concerned about. The people have the right to keep and bear arms, and it shall not be infringed. That is very easy to understand. It’s hard to like if you are a violent criminal and prefer that your violence and violations of the rights of others go uncontested and unprevented, and you don’t want to get shot. For everybody else, this is not only perfectly acceptable and necessary, it’s intuitive.Its still not empty words, it is intent, which we supposedly have a history of using when interpreting the constitution for modern cases.
and you don’t want to get shot.
I dont think America is the place to be if you dont want to get shot. Did you write this thinking we have a good track record or something?
Shall not be infringed. As someone else pointed out there’s already a TRO, this is just a political stunt.
A well regulated militia shall not be infringed
A well balanced breakfast, being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed.
In the above sentence, who has the right to keep and eat food, “the people,” or “a well balanced breakfast?”
It sounds like the balanced breakfast is the basis for everything that follows
Yawn, this ignorant trope again. Go learn to read 17th and 18th century prose.
Yawn, it’s clear you don’t know how to read literature from the period. There’s plenty of explanation of the phrasing, indeed by the writers themselves in contemporary missives. But you don’t really care, you already have your ideology.
Go read any Jane Austen and you’ll learn. Even better, the Federalist Papers, or the Adams/Jefferson letters.
Or more specifically, Federalist #29, which argued that the US should not have a standing military. THAT was the reasoning behind 2A. Of course our forebears learned pretty quickly that was a dumb ass hill to die on, and we have a huge standing military. The reasons for the 2A have been buried in progress, yet scared neanderthals still feel the need to cower with their guns in fear that the big bad world will touch them.
Keeping contemporary weapons is not cowardice, it’s just smart. Intentionally disarming yourself is colossolly stupid. Pretending that the world isn’t dangerous is mental illness.
Literally constitutional. States can set the laws and regulations around firearms, as established by supreme court precedent.
The supreme court is wrong about 2A. Laws and regulations are infringements, which the constitution specifically prohibits.
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This is patently false. Take a look at all the restrictions on the 1st amendment. I’m not allowed to walk into congressional chambers and scream at the top of my lungs in protest am I?
Those laws prevent you from infringing on the rights of others. There are no laws regarding firearms that prevent you from infringing on the rights of others; they merely infringe on yours.
Since 2008. It was well understood that regulations were fine until then
SCOTUS has already blocked similar bans in the past, like in Chicago.
This specific ruling was also just blocked.
The Supreme Court also ruled recently that firearm owners can file off serial numbers, to give some context for their stance on the 2nd amendment.
I’m not sure where you got the impression they were in favor of states blocking owning/carrying firearms in public. There’s little to no precedent for that.
The Supreme Court also ruled recently that firearm owners can file off serial numbers, to give some context for their stance on the 2nd amendment.
Care to show that ruling?
I look forward to seeing you proven incorrect by the courts. The TRO is already in place.
All that would mean is that there is a current disagreement. The assault weapons ban was constitutional. California’s regulations on firearms is constitutional. Those are all court rulings with a lot more gravitas than a NM TRO.
There is no right via the second amendment for the unregulated possession or carry of firearms, just like there is no right in the first amendment to unlimited free speech. Those are interpretations that are entirely grounded in an optimistic layperson’s interpretation of what a multi century old complex body of laws actually should mean, rather than the actual legal interpretations.
The government tightly regulates speech. It’s allowed to, over-generous interpretations of the First be damned. It is the same thing with firearms.
It’s culture war bullshit that will go back and forth for another century if we last that long. The pendulum is currently in a pro-gun direction. At some point it will swing back and we will have a federal ban on weapons and mag caps again.
The problem of course is the American gun fetish, not the guns themselves. As long as people culturally fetishize guns as symbols of freedom and masculinity, we’re going to have this. It’s got an intersection with Southern and African American honor culture that escalated violence, and an increasing intersection with right wing domestic terrorism, which in turn informs mass shootings. But it’s easier to do an ineffective gun ban than address that.
I mean, that’s a nice wall of text, but it isn’t going to make this order any more constitutional. Law enforcement isn’t enforcing it, and the state AG isn’t even defending it apparently.
There’s already a temporary restraining order halting enforcement
So is forced jury duty and the draft. But many can only count to two.
“I welcome the debate and fight about how to make New Mexicans safer,” she said at a news conference, flanked by law enforcement officers."
It’s only temporary and there’s bound to be exceptions.
Seems like she is desperately making a wake-up call to gun owners to come up with a solution to killings.Ah yeah… Not constitutional.
She’s just doing this for her image.
She’s about to term out anyway, so she doesn’t really care what it does to her.
Ah I didn’t know that.
Well, grasping for straws, trying to say that she did something bold etc. Anyway I read in another article that a judge is blocking this
Just a reminder that the right to bear arms in public places was only established in 2008.
Art. II, § 6: Right to Bear Arms No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons.
New Mexico has it in it’s constitution that carrying a firearm has been legal since 1911. Concealed was allowed in 2003.
Only explicitly recognized in 2008. The constitutional amendment SCOTUS used for this ruling was established nearly 250 years ago and has remained unchanged since.
How come it took so long if the premise was correct the entire time?
CC/OC has always been legal in the US and only after the civil war did laws restricting carry start to pop up (you can probably guess what group of people this was meant to target). NY recently used a law restricting the rights of Catholics and Native Americans as a historical justification for their CC restrictions. The state laws took awhile (and the fear of some groups carrying to subside) to become infringing enough before law suits began. Someone needed to sue and be able appeal enough times in order to be heard by the SCOTUS, which is difficult and time consuming. But the ruling SCOTUS made isn’t what makes CC legal, it is a firm statement that it always was legal and laws infringing on that have always been unconstitutional.
Slavery was always legal and only after the civil war did restrictions come about (you can probably guess what group of people this was meant to target). Ignoring hyperbole, it is a fact that the “well regulated” portion of the 2A was understood to allow for restrictions until Scalia made up a reason to ignore it, again in 2008.
Im not going to defend the way NY is going about it, but to say there is no history for gun regulation by States is ignoring history and stare decisis.
Ignoring the metaphor cause yeesh.
But “well regualted” means and always meant something to the tune of well trained and supplied. "The phrase “well-regulated” was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. ". And more importantly " Right of the people " and “Shall not be infringed” are clear and obvious.
Also ignoring the web 1.0 webpage, why did Scalia argue that this portion of the 2A can be ignored? Cant the state pass laws to maintain the well regulation of arms?
You can ignore that source if you want, there are plenty others. But the fact remains that well regulated does not give the government the right to regulate arms.
The worst part about this dumb ass talking point is that it implies that the Supreme Court is the source of our inalienable rights
By talking point, you mean how the US constitution was written and the whole point of the supreme court?
Edit: Until congress does their job and pass legislation on these matters, this is unfortunately how the cookie crumbles.
I mean that rights are inherent to being human, not bestowed by 9 people with law degrees
They’re only declared inherent human rights on the very same sheet of paper that defines the rights and codifies them into law. Without the government backing them, they don’t mean anything and are just words written on a piece of paper.
The constitution doesn’t bestow those rights, it just defines how the government interacts with them
I agree in principle, but not in totality (largely due to bad faith arguements). Everyone should have the right to privacy and basic essentials, to carry a glock around wherever not so much.
